Curse

geekling · Sep 13, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by flclempire

*Signed*
They don't fight unless I'm holding completely still, if I turn at all they run back to me and get into formation.

This is not a new problem, they've been like that since day one. People have complained about that one since day one, Anet have ignored it since day one. And it's still as annoying as it have always been.

Now, what I want from the hero AI.

If set to agressive:
They attack any red dot that enters their aggro circle.
They stick to that target until it is down, they C-space to attack the nearest target. Not spend most of the fight running from one end of the battle to the other, pulling melee mobs straight into the backline and the soft squishy casters. Because their target priority have spotted something over there! - Your bogstandard, not too intelligent, drawing genitalia on the radar Wammo can manage C-space. Koss should be able to do so too.
As long as their target is still standing, they only switch target if a target has been called, or they have been manually locked to a target.
They only break off the fight when they have run out of red dots within their aggro circle, have been flagged away from the fight, or their aggresive/guard/avoid combat status have changed.

If set to guard:
Their primary target is the one that is called.
Their secondary target - if no target have been called is to attack the target their lord and master (ie. the player) attacks.
If there is no called target and their lord and master is not attacking any target, their current target priority AI kicks in. I know they have one, the way they keep running all over the place.
If their lord and master breaks off and leaves their aggro bubble (ie. oh shit! run for the hills!) they break off from the fight and follow without being flagged. Player movement within their aggro bubble does NOT trigger a break off and reform.

If set to avoid combat:
Well... that one don't really need changing.

Henchies should be set to guard by default.

xArcaeus · Sep 13, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

I think we can all acknowledge that the AI for Heroes has dropped dramatically since the release date of GWEN, across all campaigns. I propose Anet has done this on purpose, and here's why. Many of us sick of PUGs have learned and made great builds for our Heroes, and used them almost exclusively with henchies to accomplish everything we do. I mean, we can assure that our heroes have leet weapons, runes, and tweaked skill sets, which can also do things most human players cannot (MM bombing, interrupting bosses in HM, etc.) Anet may not like this trend, and may be trying to foster a less H/H world that GW has become, by making us realize that *some* humans may now be better than heroes. I also say this because we know GW2 only has one companion at a time, so we know we'll have to play with other *real* people much more often there.

Anet, I suggest that if this is the case, don't claim ignorance, cause as a software engineer, I know something's gone haywire with this AI. If this is accidental, however, please FIX it so I can do Slaver's Exile in less that 6 hours!

SuperDave · Sep 13, 2007, 03:37 PM // 15:37

/signed

yes fix it please, they are sucking really bad atm (more the before). I could easily vanquish in Hard Mode with a team of hero/hench before GWEN. Doing dungeons in EOtN is doable, but arguably harder because of their sucky AI

Red-Tide · Sep 13, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Umm, for those of you saying "nothing has changed, it's the monster AI thats new". I dont get how you get that. How does new monster AI make Mhenlo & Zhed tank? That makes zero sense to me, there is definetly a problem here that Anet needs to address.

SkyHiRider · Sep 13, 2007, 07:19 PM // 19:19

/signed
I cant stand that my war heroes hit an enemy 3 times, then run away and stand idle for about 5 sec and then return to finish of the sucker. Every creature in Guild Wars has better AI than the heroes now...

Vinraith · Sep 13, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

/signed

Not sure what's causing the problem, but here's hoping it gets fixed soon. This business of heroes openly disobeying flags is becoming a real problem.

Angelica · Sep 13, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

/signed.

Devona has gone mentally crazy lately!

Targren · Sep 14, 2007, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Hopefully Anet doesn't go into politician mode, deny everything, and leave the game broken.

Mello_Macabre · Sep 14, 2007, 09:59 AM // 09:59

/Sign

In hero battles I make Xandra use WoR--She stands there as I get slayed by an assassin 3 feet from her!

Zhed and Vekk love to go off on a spirit hunt in Slaver's Exile, it is rediculous!

xArcaeus · Sep 14, 2007, 01:19 PM // 13:19

/Sign

Last night I kid you not I was doing the Sveltarm dungeon in Slaver's Exile, when we (me and my H/H's) accidentally aggroed a bit too much, so flagged them back about 100 feet, only to have Talon, Mhenlo, and Herta run in the exact OPPOSITE direction, into and PAST the mob. Not even the lvl 5 bull in presearing is that stupid. All I could do was laugh at the ridiculous of the situation. Thank god I was still able to finish it...

Vickie · Sep 14, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

/signed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trx

/Signed

Some heroes have indeed been acting strange lately.

Lately when there is a spirit (like cast by a ranger mob) in the way all heroes/hench get all messed up and stand still at random until I attack the spirit and kill it.

I know! They refuse to follow if there's a spirit around.

Guys, it's only an enemy's Favorable Winds. GET OVER IT!

Sparks Dawnbringer · Sep 14, 2007, 08:45 PM // 20:45

/Signed

Try letting us decide how we want to play and not forcing us to Pug, because the heros have all gone stupid. And for crying out loud let us give the heros the new skills and the lightbringer ones. I think the best way for me to play is with one other player and heros.

And the new targeting system is bugged a bit. Sometimes if I was healing a ally even though I have retargeted a foe, for some reason I run up to and touch my last ally.

Big_Iron · Sep 16, 2007, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Here's a screenie I took last night. I was doing the Gwen green flute quest (I forget the name). You can see I have Gwen set on "Guard," but she still ran off and attacked a group of Charr by herself. Is the AI bugged? Uh, yeah.

Yes, I have her set up as a Fast Casting nuker. No comments about the build please. That's not the subject of the thread.

EDIT-> Reduced size of SS as requested.

Stormer_99 · Sep 16, 2007, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Does anyone know if Anet has responded to this issue? If they want to save money buy using Fan site forums as the conduit for their customer feedback, the least they can do is reply. Especially when the issue is as significant as this.

wolfwing · Sep 16, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Some new issues I've been seeing of late.

Refusing to move period. I was doing the centaur boss in Slavers Exile and I had the entire team flagged just out of range so that we could prepare ourselves, suddenly Zhed runs off up the hill attacks the boss, I flag him back, and he refuses to move even after repeated flagging untill he's casted his meteor shower and gotten us agro'd.

Npc's NOT running when you want them too, or stopping to heal when you don't want them too. This is REALLY annoying. Doing Duncan I was manually moving my hero's to avoid the rifts...yet they repeatedly refused to move, I have 3 hero's move imediatly, 3 take a few seconds and BARLEY get out of range and other 2 cast spells untill just beore it goes off and get two steps and are nailed. This happens repeatedly. They refuse to move at all.

Running up point blank to cast spells even if flagged back.

Warriors doing the can't touch this dance where they refuse to attack a enemy and just run up to it and then flee and then run up to it, then flee repeatedly. I kept having Koss do this in FOW, he be set to attack and he just spend the entire fight runnign around like a idiot.

Not a hero problem but a really REALLY old Henchmen one, henchmen flatly refusing to obey called targets, this is one that *****es me off, I'm so sick of getting a enemy to 10% health and having it heal because my henchmen are all attacking random different targets. I almost break my left mouse button demanding they attack it and they just ignore.

Pathfinding, it's never been great to begin with but I've been noticing that if there is even 1 enemy between your hero's and you they get stuck and can't follow you.

These are just some of the issues I remember.

wolfwing · Sep 16, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Yeah I've been noticing that hero's are reluctant to break from enemies any more, really noticable in Glint's Challenge where I'm running between the two enterances, I can't count how many times when I run to the other side because it's getting filled up and I die almost imediatly and I look at my hero's and they are all busy attacking the enemies on the other side, not one even tried to follow.

Mineria · Sep 16, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I don't think the AI is broken.
It seems more like the x,y,z axis distance calculations aren't correct at some places.
Mainly at places with a lot of hight difference (z)
So to avoid the mess that can happen, I flag my crew behind me, before I start making long pulls.

Big_Iron · Sep 16, 2007, 09:24 PM // 21:24

I've submitted my screen and info to support, as I hope others have. So far, nothing from Anet.

Yggdrasil · Sep 16, 2007, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekling

*snip* what I want from the hero AI.

If set to agressive:
They attack any red dot that enters their aggro circle.
They stick to that target until it is down, they C-space to attack the nearest target. Not spend most of the fight running from one end of the battle to the other, pulling melee mobs straight into the backline and the soft squishy casters. Because their target priority have spotted something over there! - Your bogstandard, not too intelligent, drawing genitalia on the radar Wammo can manage C-space. Koss should be able to do so too.
As long as their target is still standing, they only switch target if a target has been called, or they have been manually locked to a target.
They only break off the fight when they have run out of red dots within their aggro circle, have been flagged away from the fight, or their aggresive/guard/avoid combat status have changed.

If set to guard:
Their primary target is the one that is called.
Their secondary target - if no target have been called is to attack the target their lord and master (ie. the player) attacks.
If there is no called target and their lord and master is not attacking any target, their current target priority AI kicks in. I know they have one, the way they keep running all over the place.
If their lord and master breaks off and leaves their aggro bubble (ie. oh shit! run for the hills!) they break off from the fight and follow without being flagged. Player movement within their aggro bubble does NOT trigger a break off and reform.

If set to avoid combat:
Well... that one don't really need changing.

Henchies should be set to guard by default.

++
A.Net, please print this post, and affix it to every flat surface in the A.I. guys cubicle; then hire an A.I. guy...

(/signed, by the way)

wolfwing · Sep 16, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Flagging doesn't help for a few reasons I find, I still use it but it's really unconsistent.

1. When pulling they STILL run half way towards you meaning that often times they attack the enemy way before you want them too. Nothing worse then pulling a group and turning to see Zhed and the others right behind you.

2. When pulling and if you disable the flag as you approach so you can be haled they will run up to you and even past you before healing many times.

3. Flagging to keep them in wards lasts about as long as the first enemy to get near them, all too often I flag and within seconds my mages are running every wich way ignoring the flags.

4. Flagging back hero's so that your archers can work on a boss *duncan* fails because as soon as combat starts they run in unless they are flagged too far back to be useful.

4 really ticks me off. I was trying duncan by having a archer hit him with spells, then guy with plague/SV cast it on him, and my henchmen flagged just behind the archer to heal the SV/Plague, surprise surprise as soon as the first attack went at the SV they all run in and attack, if I want them to do anything I have to flag them back so far they need to run up to cast proteective spirit.

It's just a nasty cycle I've found that even with avoid combat they can do dumb things, and you can't set the combat aggresivness for henchmen so forget having them hang back to heal they just run in and attack.